Since 2021, at least 177 anti-trans bills have become law across the country. In an effort to understand this trend and its implications, The 19th News published a six part series about trans rights. Today, Errin sits down with The 19th’s LGBTQ+ reporters – Kate Sosin and Orion Rummler – to talk about their reporting for this series and what’s at stake for all of us, not just trans folks, in this upcoming election.
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On today’s episode
Our host
Errin Haines is The 19th’s editor-at-large and writer of The Amendment newsletter. An award-winning journalist with nearly two decades of experience, Errin was previously a national writer on race for the Associated Press. She’s also worked at the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post.
Follow Errin on Instagram @emarvelous and X @errinhaines.
Today’s guests
Kate Sosin is one of two LGBTQ+ beat reporters here at The 19th and our (very) unofficial chief chaos officer. They try to report stories or angles that you won’t find anywhere else, the ones that disrupt our assumptions about the world and queer people in it.
Follow the Kate on Instagram at @katesosin
Orion Rummler is an LGBTQ+ reporter for The 19th based in Washington, D.C. His reporting ranges from health policy explainers and court deep dives to statehouse breaking news and features on LGBTQ+ daily life. His priority is to inform our readers about how U.S. politics are shaping the future for LGBTQ+ Americans, and how LGBTQ+ people are shaping the future for all of us.
Follow Orion on Instagram at @i_oriion
Episode transcript
The Amendment podcast transcripts are automatically generated by a third-party website and may contain typos or other errors. Please consider the official record for The Amendment podcast to be the audio publicly available wherever you listen to podcasts.
Kate:
A lot of us are not thinking about the fact that like we all have gender, right? Like it’s not just trans people that have gender.
Errin:
Hey y’all, welcome to The Amendment, a weekly conversation about gender, politics, and power from the 19th News and Wonder Media Network. I’m your host, Errin Haines. Since 2021, at least 177 anti-trans bills have become law across the country. Let that sink in for a minute, because here at the 19th News, we understand that this is very important, whether this affects you or someone you love. And at the 19th News, we wanted to capture this important and ever developing story, especially as we are gearing up for a consequential election in November with trans rights remaining a deeply contested issue. Last month at The 19th, we published a six part series called The Toll of America’s Anti-Trans War. This was an effort led by our LGBTQ+ reporter, Kate Sosin and Orion Rummler, with contributions from the 19th economy, childcare, voting rights, and political reporters. Why? Because this issue does not just affect trans people, it is truly intersectional, and it shows how these laws are rewiring the future for all of us. I wanted to take some time today to dive into this incredibly important reporting. So today, I’m really, really happy to be joined by my colleagues, Kate Sosin and Orion Rummler. Kate, Orion, welcome to The Amendment. Thank you so much for your work on this.
Kate:
Thank you so much for having us.
Orion:
It’s great to be here.
Errin:
Okay, so let’s get started. Let’s unpack this series. Um, Kate, let’s start by talking about just how you came up with the idea for this series. What were you thinking about going into this? What questions were you setting out to answer?
Kate:
Orion and I have this regular check-in where we just kind of bounce ideas off each other about what kind of coverage we’re doing, and we were doing one of those and we happened to include our colleague Sara Luterman, who covers disability. We were just bouncing around ideas and talking about, “Hey, you know, like these anti-trans bills are not just impacting trans adults and trans kids.” And it was Sara who said, you know, these bills are impacting kids with disabilities and their caregivers. I was like, that’s a really good story. We should think about that. And the more we talked about it, we were like, you know, these bills target everybody. And I was like, what if we did a series of stories on that? And we all just kind of came up with the idea together. And the more we talked about it, the more stories we had. And by the end of the conversation, we had a whole series.
Errin:
We had been building this body of work at The 19th, but really to put it all in one place, to have a series that really laid out what the landscape looks like, for people right now. And to have it be something that, that multiple people in the newsroom were invested in. I mean, that felt like really important work for us. And it felt like a really important model for how to bring the rest of the country, how to bring the rest of this democracy into this conversation. Who gets to have humanity and dignity in our public spaces and places? That is something that everybody should care about, especially as it pertains to, you know, the freedoms and rights conversations that we’re having, uh, right now headed into this consequential election. We’ll get to that. But as you were saying, Kate, I mean, this could have been a really unwieldy topic. There was so much to cover. Orion, I wanna ask you about how you went about narrowing the focus and also if there was any resistance frankly, that you all ran into reporting this series.
Orion:
Thank you so much, Errin. So yeah, we had a lot of ideas at the beginning and I think that was our biggest challenge, was narrowing down like which stories to do and which ones we could feasibly get done. I mean, one of my story ideas for this series came pretty late: Imane Khelif at the Olympics, just faced like a, a global storm of harassment. I knew that needed to be one of our stories, although it was like late in the game. I was like, we know we need this.
Kate:
We’ve all talked about anti-trans legislation ad nauseum, and it’s an important conversation, but a lot of us think that you can take a scalpel and just pick out trans people and target them with anti-trans laws. And I think what a lot of the nation has not realized is that when you target any minority community, any group, you are really changing life for all of us, right? It’s a structural issue that impacts all of us, right? If you’re gonna have sex and gender testing for trans kids, you have to do that same testing for cisgender girls in schools to see if they can also participate in sports. And that’s a concept that a lot of parents are just not gonna be comfortable with.
Errin:
And that they may not be aware of, right? I mean, they’re not aware of the consequences for their children as well,
Kate:
Right. And so a lot of us are not thinking about the fact that like, we all have gender, right? Like it’s not just trans people that have gender. We all have gender. And, and if we’re making these rules around gender, we all have to live by these weird gender roles. And a lot of them are really invasive and uncomfortable. And if we’re gonna rewrite the script for this, we all have to live by it. And that can get really uncomfortable for all of us. And sometimes learning to exist in solidarity is a really uncomfortable concept or a really annoying concept for a lot of people. And you have to remind them that like, you know what, it’s actually your reality, too.
Errin:
What really comes across in this series is a notion of our shared fate as fellow citizens, which feels very important. Gender is political, and it is being weaponized in this country in this moment. I want to get into some of the work in the series. Orion, one of the pieces that you wrote — speaking of Republican lawmakers — you talked about how they are really just trying to shoehorn this anti-trans legislation into bills that otherwise have nothing to do with the trans community. Talk about what you found in your reporting,
Orion:
What folks may have seen, probably have already seen, are headlines about how states have had eleventh-hour trans bills introduced at the last hour, like the 11th hour of legislative sessions, especially in Alabama and Kentucky. They’ve probably already seen that. But what I think is new here that people may not be aware of is, there’s been just run of the mill bills — like legislation meant to benefit students or veterans or local industry, there was one about gas stoves — just really routine stuff that’s just completely either, it’s either amended to include an anti-trans amendment, or it’s rewritten entirely at the last second without opportunity for public comment. without a lot of debate on the legislative floor. Advocates in these states were just describing to me a lot of chaos. We’ve seen the state freedom caucuses go into more of these state houses, and that’s like a far right conservative contingency. That’s part of how they literally just operate, is they want to be so out there that they, like, they get more attention to their issues. And so it’s Republicans who are more far right are being elected into these state houses, stalling conversations about even just passing the state budget with like anti-abortion or anti-trans issues when nobody else is trying to talk about that. Like in Iowa, there was an anti-trans amendment tacked onto a bill for veterans, you know, and then it ended up getting dropped. there was one about gas stoves,
Errin:
One of the things that the story made me think about is, I mean, is this how politicians are largely going about trying to pass this legislation? Is it more of a covert thing, or are we in a climate where they’ve become a lot more explicit in how they’re approaching this?
Orion:
Both, and it depends on the state. A lot of the anti-trans bills failed this year, which really surprised state advocates because they failed in states where they’ve been successful before. In Republican trifectas in any state, LGBTQ state advocates are like going to the State House and they are trying to have meetings with Republicans. They are trying to get influence, they’re trying to find republicans who are sympathetic, who will actually like talk with LGBTQ groups. And there al there is always Republicans who will have these conversations. But some of the more mainstream ones, like depending on the state, just don’t want to engage at all. Like they’ll just kind of like stonewall. So I think it depends, but I do enjoy watching this and talking about just how State/House Republicans interact with this issue, because it can be very fascinating. There’s this Republican Representative, Susan Concannon, she was an interesting case because she changed her mind on a gender-affirming care ban once she found out the fact that it would actually halt mental health services for at-risk kids, including kids who are not trans.
Orion:
And it was a fascinating conversation with Susan because she has staked her career in Kansas on taking care of youth. Like, those are the bills she staked her career on, she cares about kids genuinely. So when she heard about this, she had no choice but to change her mind, is what she told me.
Kate:
I think it’s really important to point out, you know, when we first saw these anti-trans bills starting to get introduced, all the bills talked about keeping men or boys out of little girls’ restrooms or locker rooms. They just would not use the word transgender. In fact, in Alaska, in 2018, when they were trying to pass an anti-trans ballot measure, they had a lot of people signing on to support the ballot measure to keep men out of girls’ restrooms, also sign on saying that they supported transgender rights because they did not understand that that two were in conflict. Now, what we’ve seen with the Trump campaign is that he will come out and say, we want to keep men out of, you know, girls’ restrooms, whatever. But they have become more explicit and they’ll use words like quote on quote transgender insanity. So the anti-trans rhetoric has become more explicit.
Errin:
You mentioned bathrooms, and I want to come back to that because bathrooms are at the center of a few of the pieces that you did that. So, talk to me about the trans bathroom piece and why that seems to be so central to this issue.
Kate:
I did a piece that looked actually at courthouses. And my idea was that, you know, several years ago I served on jury duty and I couldn’t find a bathroom to use safely. I am non-binary. Every time I needed to go to the bathroom, I had to travel really far to find a gender neutral bathroom. And so I started to do this work looking in different municipalities and asking experts, what is it like to serve on jury duty? And what I found was: Courts actually have solved this for the most part. Because they have to, right? Like, they absolutely need to provide gender neutral bathrooms and safe access to people because they have a real, immediate stake in providing jurors and people coming into courthouses with access to bathrooms. They are kind of the template for how a society could work. There’s not a whole lot of incidents in courthouses in terms of providing access to bathrooms and safety. And I thought that that was remarkable interesting and surprising.
Errin:
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, that was definitely an illuminating story in the series for me to read that. Orion, you mentioned, you know, writing specifically about how cis women of color are being uniquely affected. Can we talk about that, the Imane Khelif of it all? Why was that important for you to include as part of this conversation?
Orion:
Imane Khelif was facing — she was accused of being a trans woman by Donald Trump, Elon Musk, JK Rowling —
Errin:
As if that is a thing to be accused of, but yes, continue.
Orion:
Yes. And by some of the most powerful billionaires in the country, or people who have maybe the loudest soap boxes as billionaires in the country. And this was an Algerian woman who has worked to be in boxing since she was six years old, and she’s at the biggest stage of her career. And I was reading what people were saying about her, and whenever I saw her in the ring, you see this image of a white woman on her knees crying and Imane standing over her. And that was the image that people sharing anti-trans were circulating. And I was like, oh, it’s all coming together. Like what’s coming together is, like, racist beliefs with anti-trans beliefs. People who believe anti-trans rhetoric were seizing onto that to be like, look, this is what happens when you let trans women into sports. It’ll hurt white women, specifically, The anti-trans hatred at Khelif, and the narrow beliefs about femininity, how she looked, how she acted, the fact that she wasn’t remorseful enough.
Orion:
The fact that she was so good at what she does… is part of how anti anti-trans rhetoric fuels violence against all women of color, including cisgender women. Because when you were also talking about bathrooms, a lot of the times, like the people who are policed the most are Black women, are butch Black people, butch Black women, people who are not white. Because a lot of the traditional ideas we have about femininity are white femininity. And if you don’t fit into this box, you are going to be policed, which any, I don’t need to explain like to any person of color, like what that’s like, but I just wanted to take, use this moment, this is unfortunate moment, to point out that this is also connected.
Errin:
Yeah, it was absolutely an intersectional moment. What does it mean to have, you know, anti-trans rhetoric combined with racist rhetoric? I felt like this really kind of shed a light on really that existing thread as as well. And seeing those two things converge.
[MIDROLL]
Errin:
I do wanna talk about the 2024 of this all because, you know, this series runs in an election year that feels, you know, existential frankly for a lot of transgender Americans. And so Orion, I want to stick with you and ask you just kind of how you are seeing the war on transgender people’s rights factoring into the presidential race this year.
Orion:
We’re seeing a kind of nonsensical attack ad called “Kamala is for they them.” What it is saying is that Harris is for trans people. So we’re seeing ads like that, which is literally just saying like, “I am for good people and my opponent is for trans people,” which is a very stark kind of ad to take out. But when I think about the 2024 race and, like, there’s Trump’s rhetoric that he is using to campaign, but there’s also the policies he’s proposed. His own campaign has proposed anti-trans policies that go beyond what he’s already done. Like, he’s proposed terminating Medicare and Medicaid funding for hospitals that provide gender-affirming care to trans youth. His campaign has proposed attempting to charge teachers with sex discrimination if they affirm students’ gender identities, which it’s suspect how any of this would work. He’s also pledged to ask Congress to halt the use of federal funds to promote or pay for gender-affirming care without distinguishing between minors and adults.
Orion:
Like, it’s specific what he wants to do. It’s also familiar if you’ve been watching state LGBTQ laws, and then there’s Project 2025, which Trump has disavowed, although the people writing it include Trump allies. And Project 2025 is the blueprint by the Heritage Foundation for a second Trump administration. Project 2025 equates being transgender to pornography and declares that it should be outlawed, which is another nonsensical policy that also, like, how would that even work? Advocates aren’t sure what that even really means. And if you read through Project 2025, a read The 19th News’ summary of Project 2025, you’ll see how much of even that what the Heritage Foundation wants is very focused on trans people. Because Project 2025 is all about getting federal agencies to put in place Trump loyalists. And when it’s talking about getting rid of like the deep state, it’s also talking about getting rid of any policies that would support trans people. And it might be surprising to see how much of a priority trans people are for this group and for Trump’s campaign.
Errin:
So Kate, I just wanna ask you to weigh in on how you think the presidential race could affect even more local anti-trans legislation because I think, you know, while a lot of people are obviously focused at the top of the ticket, so much of what we’ve been talking about, so much of the work that y’all have been doing is what is happening at the state level as well.
Kate:
This huge class of trans refugees that we’ve created in our country. We have seen the migration of trans kids and their parents across the nation. And with this election coming up, trans adults too, people getting their passports ready, even in progressive states, if Donald Trump wins them not seeing a future for themselves in this country. And that is a real thing that we hear happening. And I hear that happening from people who are in California, New York, really progressive states where they would ostensibly be protected and have rights, but cannot bear the idea of existing in this country and feel like they might not have a future healthcare. We’ve heard about trans people stockpiling their hormones or medication, trying to get their surgeries in, because they feel like those things might not be possible come January, under a Trump presidency.
Errin:
We’re talking about people’s ability to participate as full citizens. It’s something so many of us may be taking for granted, but that is absolutely an open question for, you know, so many people. I want to talk about an important story that a couple of our colleagues, Grace Panetta and Barbara Rodriguez did, and that was looking into how the anti-trans legislation might complicate voting this year. Who’s most affected by this? Why was that angle an important part of this package for you all to include?
Orion:
We’ve seen states take extra efforts this year to restrict the identity documents that trans people can have and be able to update. And in Grace and Barbara’s story, they focus in on Kansas, which is really important. And they’re focusing in on the way states like Florida and Kansas are… like, the ways advocates are fighting back and mobilizing in these communities, like to get trans people able to vote and to get them to know their rights. Which is important because what we’ve seen this year is five states, either overnight or just like very quietly saying, by the way, trans people cannot update their driver’s licenses or birth certificates. And we didn’t pass the law to do this. We’re just reinterpreting our own rules. Five states have done that this year, and one of these five states is Missouri, which is actually a state with more strict voter ID laws. So it also matters what state you’re in, in terms of like how hard it is to vote, if you can vote with or without your ID. But we’re seeing states take executive action that could keep trans people from being able to vote.
Kate:
I don’t know if you remember, Erin, this was one of the first stories that we did at The 19th when we launched, was trans voter disenfranchisement, right? Like looking at just how many trans people were not gonna be able to vote in 2020 and the fact that we’re still here and it’s possibly worse.
Errin:
Yes. And the idea that, this is also part of what 21st century voter suppression looks like. This is part of that conversation. You all are now finally on the other side of this project. As you reflect back on the series, what takeaways you’re left with? What would you both say about that?
Orion:
I think my biggest takeaway is how much more there is to cover here. I mean, even just talking about like what’s going on in the state elections right now, or even ballot measures, like how anti-trans issues affect everybody. Right now in Missouri, there’s an abortion ballot measure to protect abortion. Republicans in Missouri are claiming that a ballot measure to protect abortion would somehow allow gender-affirming surgeries. There’s billboards in Missouri that are saying this like right now. So, there’s so much more to cover about how anti-trans politics and rhetoric is seeping into different policy areas. So I hope more reporters are paying attention. I hope more people pay attention. And even people who don’t have trans people in their lives, I hope they’re considering how all of this will impact them at some point, because it will.
Kate:
Yeah, I agree. And I think the other piece of that, which Orion just touched on a little bit is: it is one thing to say that we support trans people or LGBTQ+ people and care about these issues, but that also means having to vote on them. A lot of us, our top issues are childcare or the economy. It’s what we pay at the pump or the grocery store, you know, a war somewhere. But this is a war here and it affects a lot of people and it also impacts all of us. And, I talk to a lot of parents of LGBTQ+ kids or trans kids and they care deeply about these issues. But then when we get to a point of them voting, the question is, do you vote on this issue? And the answer is not always. But this is a question of our humanity and it’s intertwined with everything, and I think it all boils down to white supremacy and gender. We have to be willing to vote on this.
Errin:
Well, I think this series was definitely a reminder, especially in, in this consequential year that humanity is on the ballot. I just wanna thank you all again for conceiving of this project and for bringing it into existence. Uh, this was a great conversation. I’m really, really happy that I finally got both of you on The Amendment. Your work is really just such a contribution to everything that we stand for as a newsroom. Thanks y’all.
Kate:
Thank you, Errin.
Orion:
Thank you so much.
Errin:
The Amendment is a co-production of the 19th News and Wonder Media Network. Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan, Terry Rupa, Faye Smith, and Emily Rudder. The show is edited by Grace Lynch and Julia B. Chan, produced by Brittany Martinez, Grace Lynch, Alyia Yates Grau, and Luci Jones. And post-production support from Julie Bogen, Lance Dixon, and Wynton Wong. Artwork by Aria Goodman. And our theme music is composed by Jlin.